Ideas for CTFC (and ideas for new rules for scored CTFC)

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Ideas for CTFC (and ideas for new rules for scored CTFC)

Postby JinX » Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:17 pm

Me and MD are having a discussion on things that could potentially add depth and make ctfc more interesting, and I'd like everyone's feedback on this. The ideas are:

Cloaks, and invulnerability could be allowed for rangers rules. However, cloaks and invulnerability will always spawn where placed by the level designer (so they can put it right in the middle), and both cloak time and invulnerability time will be lowered (and possibly variable in the menu)
When cloaked, you will lose your cloak the instant you do something that makes noise: shoot, hit a wall, pick up a powerup, take damage, etc. Cloak will also drain your energy slowly.
Invulnerability will last significantly less time, and will drain your energy a bit faster than a cloak would.
The extra life powerup would always spawn in the same place, and would act like quad damage from Quake; the player deals 4x the damage he normally does.

All of these powerups wouldn't spawn the instant they were used. They would act more like the MegaHealth powerup from Quake: Once the powerup has been completely used up by the player, then a respawn timer will start for it, and only after this timer reaches 0 will the powerup respawn.

Even if we don't do all of these, I personally believe that cloaks should be allowed for games with 4 players or more (or only 6 players or more), as they change the dynamics of the game. I would still make the cloak spawn in the same spot and put it on a timer, however.
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Re: Ideas for CTFC (and ideas for new rules for scored CTFC)

Postby Hawkins » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:55 pm

Also flag carrier cannot cloak. One flagged is picked, the player is immediately and permanently de-cloaked until next legal cloak power-up pick-up. Same goes for invulnerability but not for 4x damage. On that note, I would recommend making it a 2x damage (UT-style) as it offers more tactical balance: firepower superiority but not enough to allow for careless users to loose it easily. I disagree about cloaking time variability in the menu, although I would agree to different than Descent-standard timings for all these powerup's. Also, about cloacking, I understand how (doing something reveals you immediately) serves for using the cloak by flag carriers too (or not) but it's better to be a normal cloak for all player except flag carriers, thus it can be used for flag carriage interception, but not for carrying of course. Also, all these powerups can be combined on a non-flag-carrier for devastating results that otherwise consume energy fast combined though.

Important note: if the game mode is modded to that extend, a less modded game mode will probably be merged to Rebirth's main branch instead, as the goal is to "fix" the game's original mode. That means, spawn and flag behavior only. However this is not wasted work as the project can always be forked with proper licencing.
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Re: Ideas for CTFC (and ideas for new rules for scored CTFC)

Postby JinX » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:00 pm

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Re: Ideas for CTFC (and ideas for new rules for scored CTFC)

Postby Icewolf » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:19 am

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Re: Ideas for CTFC (and ideas for new rules for scored CTFC)

Postby Sirius » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:09 am

That is true, this sounds more like D2X-XL now. Rebirth hasn't actually changed how weapons/items work until now (by design), with minor exceptions e.g. for homing missile tracking. The current CTFC implementation is already pushing the limits of what I expect to be approved for the main project with the changes to the scoreboard and all (not that they're unjustified...).

If we want to start changing how powerups and weapons work, I would really recommend considering D2X-XL as a base since you can do more with it in that regard.

P.S. But back on the Rebirth side, I'm wondering if there is a solution to the weapons (except missiles) issue. As you know, the weapons don't respawn - if someone dies they get picked up or just sit there. Of course, that means they'll tend to collect in bases in CTFC because that's how CTFC works... and if the teams aren't going dead even you can end up with an escalating amount of stuff in just one team's base - and it gets harder and harder for their opponents to come back because they have no guns, just missiles.
I'm not sure you can design this out of the level either - unless you turn it into a D3-style missile spamming map, or make it "safe" to go to the opposing team's base - which also makes flag capturing "safe", which is kind of not the point.
Does anyone see a solution to this outside of changing spew mechanics? (don't drop primaries in spew, or only the selected weapon, or do d3-style powerup spawns)
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Re: Ideas for CTFC (and ideas for new rules for scored CTFC)

Postby Icewolf » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:46 am

I guess... if there is a way it would be best to do it in D1/D2 manner - if spew is not picked up for some time make it respawn in random place. I realise that new random spot could be located nearby, but there is a chance it will spawn elsewhere (this behaviour could be managed by design - by placing some reactor cubes inside the base here and there preventing stuff to spawn there) . From tactical point of view - if you know that all weapons are in opponent's base you will wait before next attack - let's say about 20-30 secs knowing that items will respawn and roam the map looking for it for a while. That could be interesting way to force team to regroup wait and plan the attack without mindless constant rush into enemy base.

By the spew in question I mean primaries and accessories only ofc, since there is no need to do the same with missiles, those should be kept where dropped - as a reward for good defence let's say (to be picked up later if no ammo rack space)
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Re: Ideas for CTFC (and ideas for new rules for scored CTFC)

Postby Hawkins » Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:23 pm

How about have an expiration date for primaries? Like conc missiles, primaries and other items in the spew, expire, this time to respawn randomly back into the map. Cannot tell if it solves the accumulation problem fully.
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Re: Ideas for CTFC (and ideas for new rules for scored CTFC)

Postby Sirius » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:01 pm

That would work but standard expiration is too long (~5 minutes I think).
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Re: Ideas for CTFC (and ideas for new rules for scored CTFC)

Postby JinX » Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:41 pm

Standard expiration removes the weapons from the game entirely I believe. Others have told me otherwise, but I'm yet to see it. I've tried to find the code behind it, but haven't had much success. I will look into it more later. Currently the only thing I've changed in terms of how weapons work is that you cannot pick up a cloak while you have a flag, and if you grab the flag while cloaked, it will decloak you. Oh, and cloaks have a 30 second time limit to be respawned when used in this way. Otherwise, if they are fully used up without grabbing a flag, they will respawn normally.
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Re: Ideas for CTFC (and ideas for new rules for scored CTFC)

Postby Hawkins » Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:03 pm

More consistently, you can apply "memory" to respawning. i.e.: cloak respawn 30 seconds after pick-up, FIXED. Whether it's fully used OR interrupted by aforementioned events. Note: do not forget to apply this to invuls (if available in this game mode)
My god, it's full of stars. ~
Live and explore...
Bonds are as bonded as the bonded...
There is only one way out of deep ****...
Another definition for laziness is: placebo resting!
Trust is laziness. Mistrust is obsession.

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